IREF - Subscribed Threads Update

Dear ck.kislay,

You are subscribed to the thread "Real Estate Bubble Set to Burst Again in India" by MANOJa, there have been 32 post(s) to this thread, the last poster was suwonguy.

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

These following posts were made to the thread:

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: spectre

On: July 10 2017 09:15 AM

[QUOTE=GoodmanBrown;n2531479][URL="https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/member/39121-iceemani"]iceemani[/URL] , Thanks for the correction in calculation . Yes you are right . Basically I just wanted to point out that there is a time lag between reproductive rate and total population . So if India achieves as a whole 2.1 reproductive rate today the population will still grow for about 30 years before levelling off and then may be decline .[/QUOTE] [USER="226233"]GoodmanBrown[/USER] Yes, you are right that there's a time lag. I mentioned the same as well. It is around 30 years gap. Some states will see it sooner, some later. This stops the argument that RE will grow forever, due to population growth. I'm sure that RE bulls will now run after urbanization. Unfortunately, though they are right that urbanization will continue, what they fail to understand is that urbanization will not be concentrated in existing places, rather they will change location often (every 20-30 years). That's what history taught us and that's natural for human civilization.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: humblefool

On: July 10 2017 09:45 AM

[QUOTE=sapvin82;n2531250] Again a falsehood. For entry level job you dont have to study for 22 years. join indian army after 10th as soldier. Earn 20000 every month and every thing else is free. Also soldier can get high altitude posting and double this salary. so practically earning more than IT guys nowadays.[/QUOTE] [FONT=trebuchet ms]As far as I know, Indian army no longer has a pension scheme going, since 2003-2004? I guess they only get some health care benefits etc. Plus its not like a job for life. Mostly you will be discharged after some service(like 20 years), especially if you are just 10th pass. Also you are discounting the difficulty of serving in the border areas, war times etc. Its not an easy life to live, all for a just 20 year job. Also the pay is not too great either.[/FONT]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: humblefool

On: July 10 2017 09:51 AM

[QUOTE=spectre;n2531349] :) Do you really mean that US has a falling population? Please check again. India'a population growth has rather slowed down significantly (2.3% in 1984 to 1.2% in 2015) and steadily! Even fertility rate in India fell from near 6 in 1960s tp 2.2 in 1916! In fact most states showed fertility rate below 2! Please substantiate claims with data. Anyone can postulate, but it is acceptable only when substantiated with proofs. [/QUOTE] [FONT=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif]Population growth rate has seen a local minima. The population numbers itself haven't reversed. [/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif]Most of these population surveys are from urban middle class salaried working people. Business men, poor people etc who are likely the next middle class have a far higher population growth rate. And those people don't care, about all these things. Most of my cousins and their circles I have seen, who come from business families generally tend to have 3 kids on a average. :) :) And yes, reproducing till you get a boy baby phenomenon is still quite common in our country :) ;)[/FONT]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: southsea

On: July 10 2017 10:53 AM

>[FONT=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif]Most of these population surveys are from urban middle class salaried working people.[/FONT] Boy, talk about clutching at straws to defend the 'population is increasing, hence buy RE' argument. Data about replacement rates, fertility etc is from census. ([URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian...fertility_rate[/URL]) The prosperous western and southern states (which are also the ones with higher literacy and better healthcare systems) have rates below 2.1. It is growth in the poorer states that is keeping rates up. The key line - "[I]Recent surveys show that majority of Indian states fertility rate has fallen well below the replacement level of 2.1 and the country is fast approaching the replacement level itself[/I]" . This is not to say urbanization is going to stop. But the population pressure is going to ease off in the next 10-20 years. Interestingly, even in places deep south (Trivandrum, Cochin etc) people are having to learn Hindi because lot of labourers, maids, etc are from North India. [URL="http://www.thehindu.com/society/Malayalam-bolo/article17009032.ece"]http://www.thehindu.com/society/Mala...le17009032.ece[/URL] .

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: humblefool

On: July 10 2017 11:23 AM

[QUOTE=southsea;n2532092]>[FONT=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif]Most of these population surveys are from urban middle class salaried working people.[/FONT] Boy, talk about clutching at straws to defend the 'population is increasing, hence buy RE' argument. Data about replacement rates, fertility etc is from census. ([URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian...fertility_rate[/URL]) The prosperous western and southern states (which are also the ones with higher literacy and better healthcare systems) have rates below 2.1. It is growth in the poorer states that is keeping rates up. The key line - "[I]Recent surveys show that majority of Indian states fertility rate has fallen well below the replacement level of 2.1 and the country is fast approaching the replacement level itself[/I]" . This is not to say urbanization is going to stop. But the population pressure is going to ease off in the next 10-20 years. Interestingly, even in places deep south (Trivandrum, Cochin etc) people are having to learn Hindi because lot of labourers, maids, etc are from North India. [URL="http://www.thehindu.com/society/Malayalam-bolo/article17009032.ece"]http://www.thehindu.com/society/Mala...le17009032.ece[/URL] .[/QUOTE] [FONT=trebuchet ms]Yes, South sea. You have to be wealthy and prosperous to be negative about population. Note, only the rates have slowed down and that too among upper middle class people. The population numbers itself aren't reversing. The population problem is a long drawn, several generation spanning problem which won't be easy to solve. We are not bacteria, our life cycle is not a few seconds. Its takes several decades for these trends to show any real change on the ground. Urbanization itself is a problem far from being solved, we are just in the beginning stages of putting down the infrastructure for this. Most of us will be long gone by then. Its futile to debate situations which don't apply to us. [/FONT]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: humblefool

On: July 10 2017 11:58 AM

[QUOTE]Pension for Indian Army is still authorised. Only civilian staff pension is NPS based where both employer and employee contribute equally on monthly basis. .. GOI could not implement OROP but could waive thousands of crores of farmer loans and pay 1 crore compensation for those killed in MP while destroying govt property.Soldier gets insurance for dying in saving India and he pays for his insurance cover Armed forces are one institution which prevents any harm from coming to the nation. Govts over the years pays lip service to the great patriotic work of Armed forces due to babu manipulation and sheer indifference and ignorance of netas. It is an honour to serve Armed forces and not merely measurable as monthly payment and free rations in the field.[/QUOTE] [USER="175344"]Vaibhav123[/USER] [FONT=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif]A while back during the OROP debate I had heard that most soldiers don't make it to pensions as there are some very complicated calculations involved like SSC/PC etc etc. Also there are some terms you are supposed to serve. By and large I think most soldiers retire in their 30's and don't make it to pensions. So largely your best years are gone, and you will be in 30s looking for a job again. It might be a good career if you grow up the hierarchy. Not sure what conditions are for that though. But it will be hard. Note everybody will be trying to get into those positions.[/FONT]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: ggnhomeowner

On: July 10 2017 12:34 PM

[QUOTE=futuristic 7;n2531924] Well the point discussed here was the connectivity and proximity to other areas of NCR , wherein Gurgaon cant compete Faridabad and noida , the reason why gurgaon become costlier is because of the vested interest of some builders and daamaads which have now disappeared completely and is not expected to come back in near future.. Regarding the choice of corporate houses as Gurgaon is because of the vested interest which has promoted and developed the area insanely at the cost of ignoring other areas , but as you know everything in this world has a stagnancy point, and i think that gurgaon has already reached that stagnancy point,new Government is also looking at other areas for development like you have heard about Noida Int Airport with direct connectivity to Neharpar Fbd, and if there's a will there's a way (like it happened earlier in gurgaon) so situations may change completely after 5 years.. you never know, that has what happened in NCR earleir as well, when Delhi was considered as the heaven , than comes Faridabad , than gurgaon, it all happened nobody was expecting that gurgaon will rise above Delhi and Faridabad. Regarding the property rates they will continue to fall , price of 40 50 lakhs 2 bhk apt in Noida faridabad may rise , as they are already affordable but the one in gurgaon with a tag of a crore may fall to 70-80 lks in coming 2-3 years... Why ? as the people have become smart, the companies have become smart companies have started cost cutting.why to spend so much cost on office space in GURUJAAM , while they can get better infra at lower cost with the proximity to a new good airport , read the below link. [URL="http://zeenews.india.com/real-estate/jewar-airport-to-reinvigorate-greater-noida-housing-sector-industry-2022378.html"]http://zeenews.india.com/real-estate...y-2022378.html[/URL] The reason why companies chosing GURUJAAM was like majboori ka naam.... but now gradually they are getting rid of this majboori named GURUJAAM.. So in long term you will see this city losing its charm, it may sounds disheartening but thats what i do believe . Many corporate houses has moved and many will move in short span time ,Noida Expressway, Greater Noida is Huge, with upcoming developments happening in other parts of NCR they will expirence boom, NCRs largest hospital is under construction phase at the tip of FNG (Faridabad side), world class Schools ,hospitals are in construction phase in both Noida & Faridabad, , companies like Oppo and samsung are investing there thousands of crores to purchase land in both these areas at FNG intersection.. places like majboori ka naam GURUJAAM will start depreciating as they are overpriced and place is Non deserving , Water un-available, infra un-available, only thing is IT companies which has already started moving out to new areas..[/QUOTE] What I see here in the above contradictory posts is that people want to stay in Gurgaon but cannot, because its expensive! People want to buy an Audi but settle for a Maruti because they cannot afford it, not because they don't want it. They are a class apart, even though both of them do the same thing - transport you from one point to another. The moment they can get some money, they will come to Gurgaon. It will continue to remain a destination for the people who can afford to stay here, which means higher disposable incomes and for those who can't, they have other areas in NCR to go to. From what I know, there are companies which are still shifting offices from Noida, Delhi etc to Gurgaon despite the higher cost. There might be some moving out to reduce the costs for the less profitable jobs to Noida etc, but with more and more companies moving into Gurgaon, overall its a net net addition. The vacancy has reduced even further, despite several companies moving out. Noida/Gr Noida will grow too, but nowhere at the rate of Gurgaon. FYI to keep up the supply of Gurgaon commercial spaces (which will prevent rentals from spiking to higher levels), many more commercial Grade A office complexes are being built. The Government is already looking at developing/opening up other areas within Gurgaon itself, and removing the infrastructure hurdles. Two major roads opening up in the next few months itself will lead to massive office areas becoming accessible. People are pinning too much hope on the Jewar airport, that will take around 7 yrs to come, and what most are forgetting is that the existing Delhi airport is not going away, it will be expanded even more. And the massive number of jobs coming in the areas close to Delhi airport is far far higher than what is there today. Btw, if anyone thinks that they can't get 2BHKs in Gurgaon in decent complexes for 40-50L are mistaken. You can still get them and at a distance much closer from the airport than Noida/Faridabad etc. Once the flyovers/underpasses on the major bottleneck points on NH8 are ready in a few months, it will be a different story. And with the lack of sufficient housing even today in Gurgaon, its only going to get worst going ahead. Its not like Noida/GrNoida where nearly 1.8L houses remain unsold even today. Gurgaon has only a fraction of that which remain unsold. Even today, people first want to stay in the nicer places in Delhi, and if they can't afford it, then they come to Gurgaon, and if they can't afford in Gurgaon either, then they look at the lesser appealing places in Delhi or Noida. So no matter what anyone wants to say, excuses will be found to justify not being able to buy in this hierarchy.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: ggnhomeowner

On: July 10 2017 12:35 PM

[QUOTE=samggn;n2531894] Where are you measuring from, where is the centre of this radius? Its more a case of sour grapes. All excuses will be found if one cannot afford to stay in a place which is more expensive. There is a reason why Gurgaon is more expensive, and will remain so. Its the choice of the people and corporates to be here. Simple. Noida was better infrastructure wise even 30 yrs back, but Gurgaon overtook it massively as an address. 20 yrs back Faridabad was ahead of Gurgaon, but now lags far behind. So one can keep giving any logic, but if people want to move here because of the overall vibrance, then it will continue to grow. Plus with all the tens of thousands if not lakhs of more jobs coming to Gurgaon, it is not stopping any time soon. Had read that more than half of the office space absorbed last year in entire NCR region was in Gurgaon alone. People with deeper pockets, who want a certain kind of lifestyle, a community of similar type of people continue to move to Gurgaon. They are not interested in going to Faridabad, Noida etc. Faridabad, Ghaziabad, Noida, Gr Noida, are the poorer cousins of Gurgaon in NCR area. That is a fact which most people don't want to acknowledge, but evident in the pricing and housing density. This is just the same way that in Delhi you have the most desirable address as central Delhi where old houses costs 100s of crores and yet you have poorer cousins of west/north Delhi. They are part of the same city, but desirability index is different. Once you have a certain class of people staying in an area, it tends to stay like that for a considerable period of time. So if you have an area where the housing is for lower affordability, that is the strata of society that it will cater to, and people with higher income level will not prefer to come and stay there even if it means lower cost of living. Conversely if you an area where the well off stay, you will not find people with lower budget coming there, and it will tend to stay like that for a very long time. Infrastructure was not looked after properly due to the rapid pace of expansion of Gurgaon during the last decade, but now its being taken up on a war footing. Once a few of the under construction roads/flyovers are open in the next few months, its going to improve things massively. Then there is going to be an even bigger migration of jobs to Gurgaon. Guess what it is going to do to the demand for housing in Gurgaon? [/QUOTE] This is a fact that most people who haven't stayed here will not comprehend.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: sapvin82

On: July 10 2017 01:11 PM

LOL another myth busted. Formal jobs in India may be more than estimated [url]http://www.livemint.com/Politics/Le8m9TN1AqTmPQHwIilrBK/Formal-jobs-in-India-may-be-more-than-estimated.html[/url]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: sapvin82

On: July 10 2017 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=humblefool;n2532066] [FONT=trebuchet ms]As far as I know, Indian army no longer has a pension scheme going, since 2003-2004? I guess they only get some health care benefits etc. Plus its not like a job for life. Mostly you will be discharged after some service(like 20 years), especially if you are just 10th pass. Also you are discounting the difficulty of serving in the border areas, war times etc. Its not an easy life to live, all for a just 20 year job. Also the pay is not too great either.[/FONT][/QUOTE] I was giving an example that 22 years of study is not required for entry level jobs.Also after 10th millions of rural youths go for 1-2 yrs ITI course. If they do it from good institute then also placement pay is high in region of 15-20k per month. So you are not correct in saying that 22 yrs of study is required for entry level jobs.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: revhappy

On: July 10 2017 01:22 PM

[QUOTE=rookieman;n2531987]Actually I worked in GGN for eight years before relocating to Bangalore. Pay package in Gurgaon IT companies(not sure of other sectors) was not sufficient enough to settle in Gurgaon unless you have other sources of income. Practically I didn't have a choice but to relocate to Bangalore 3 years back. The Faridabad option was not available then. Now with improved connectivity one can stay in Faridabad and work in Gurgaon. For higher education kids will soon be able to go to Delhi on a daily basis using Metro/other options.[/QUOTE] I think if you are working in India, you should work in or close to your hometown. If you have to relocate, might as well relocate to a developed country. The cost of staying in another Indian city on rent doesn't make sense.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: raabta

On: July 10 2017 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=ggnhomeowner;n2532133] This is a fact that most people who haven't stayed here will not comprehend.[/QUOTE] Regarding Noida being a poorer cousin of Gurgaon...well it is a fact. There is no denying that. Gurgaon has the gentry, jobs and potential to sustain. Somehow there was same govt in center and haryana for last decade, which harmonized business flow for MNCs. Who would want to deal with Akhilesh or Maya and Sonia when they can only deal with Sonia? Now, for a change Noida/UP also has the same govt as center. Potential is there, but UP is UP. Can these 5 years change a state, i dont think so. Noida always had better infra, roads water etc...but that did not help it in last decade.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: humblefool

On: July 10 2017 02:11 PM

[QUOTE=sapvin82;n2532177] I was giving an example that 22 years of study is not required for entry level jobs.Also after 10th millions of rural youths go for 1-2 yrs ITI course. If they do it from good institute then also placement pay is high in region of 15-20k per month. So you are not correct in saying that 22 yrs of study is required for entry level jobs. [/QUOTE] [FONT=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif]I feel very sorry to say this. But do you realize most of these ITI courses are at a skill level higher than any skills you would have gained in the military. Being a welder, carpenter, electrician etc are even better than any literature or humanities, history, arts degree today. If you are a welder or a plumber you have useful work to do, you can build grills, erect roofs, do plumbing etc. Of what real world value does studying 'literature', 'civics' etc hold? Most of these non-STEM degree people are doing call center jobs, running marketing campaign during marathons etc for small time money. The point in discussion is life itself is a long investment. Long before somebody makes a RE investment, they have likely made an investment in something more basic: Education, work, skills etc. Each of those ofcourse itself take a lot of time to develop, sustain and keep it going. So that way nothing is easy. Simply saying an investment isn't worth because it takes time is a pointless point. Every thing takes time.[/FONT]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: humblefool

On: July 10 2017 02:13 PM

[QUOTE=revhappy;n2532185] I think if you are working in India, you should work in or close to your hometown. If you have to relocate, might as well relocate to a developed country. The cost of staying in another Indian city on rent doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE] [FONT=trebuchet ms]If you stay at a place for more than 10 years. The place becomes your new hometown. All this 'I will go back' argument is waste. Given the economic opportunity, education ecosystem and other myriad benefits of staying in a city. Nobody in any real sense is going back. [/FONT]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: sapvin82

On: July 10 2017 02:35 PM

[h=1][SIZE=14px]more hiring in IT. Capgemini to hire over 20k people in India, reskilled 45k . Where is Bubble and where is Crash????[/SIZE][/h] [url]http://tech.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/corporate/capgemini-to-hire-over-20k-people-in-india-reskilled-45k/59451295[/url]

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: ggnhomeowner

On: July 10 2017 04:09 PM

[QUOTE=raabta;n2532194] Regarding Noida being a poorer cousin of Gurgaon...well it is a fact. There is no denying that. Gurgaon has the gentry, jobs and potential to sustain. Somehow there was same govt in center and haryana for last decade, which harmonized business flow for MNCs. Who would want to deal with Akhilesh or Maya and Sonia when they can only deal with Sonia? Now, for a change Noida/UP also has the same govt as center. Potential is there, but UP is UP. Can these 5 years change a state, i dont think so. Noida always had better infra, roads water etc...but that did not help it in last decade. [/QUOTE] You are mistaken if you say last decade....should say last 3 decades. But you are right, UP is UP. Couldn't be changed in last 3 decades, just went from bad to worse. I hope it improves, for the sake of the people living there. But regardless of that, it can't catch up with Gurgaon anymore. It might become better, but then so will Gurgaon become even more better. Its not without a reason I sold my investment in Noida and put it in Gurgaon. Made more money as a result thereof. Even now I see rapid pace of development in Gurgaon, once the dust settles, only then will the rest of the world see it. But by then some places that are still relatively cheap today, will become more expensive. And people will continue to keep waiting for the so called bubble to burst. What people are not seeing is that the bubble was of properties with pathetic construction commanding lofty premiums, that has already burst. The good properties/areas are still holding out. It may not make investment sense in certain areas/projects, but can't say the same for end use, where the consideration is different. The sooner that the people wake up to this, the better it will be for them, else they will only end up paying higher amounts for the same later.

With warm regards,
Team IREF

https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/13876-real-estate-bubble-set-to-burst-again-in-india

Posted by: futuristic 7

On: July 10 2017 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=ggnhomeowner;n2532131] What I see here in the above contradictory posts is that people want to stay in Gurgaon but cannot, because its expensive! People want to buy an Audi but settle for a Maruti because they cannot afford it, not because they don't want it. They are a class apart, even though both of them do the same thing - transport you from one point to another. The moment they can get some money, they will come to Gurgaon. It will continue to remain a destination for the people who can afford to stay here, which means higher disposable incomes and for those who can't, they have other areas in NCR to go to. From what I know, there are companies which are still shifting offices from Noida, Delhi etc to Gurgaon despite the higher cost. There might be some moving out to reduce the costs for the less profitable jobs to Noida etc, but with more and more companies moving into Gurgaon, overall its a net net addition. The vacancy has reduced even further, despite several companies moving out. Noida/Gr Noida will grow too, but nowhere at the rate of Gurgaon. FYI to keep up the supply of Gurgaon commercial spaces (which will prevent rentals from spiking to higher levels), many more commercial Grade A office complexes are being built. The Government is already looking at developing/opening up other areas within Gurgaon itself, and removing the infrastructure hurdles. Two major roads opening up in the next few months itself will lead to massive office areas becoming accessible. People are pinning too much hope on the Jewar airport, that will take around 7 yrs to come, and what most are forgetting is that the existing Delhi airport is not going away, it will be expanded even more. And the massive number of jobs coming in the areas close to Delhi airport is far far higher than what is there today. Btw, if anyone thinks that they can't get 2BHKs in Gurgaon in decent complexes for 40-50L are mistaken. You can still get them and at a distance much closer from the airport than Noida/Faridabad etc. Once the flyovers/underpasses on the major bottleneck points on NH8 are ready in a few months, it will be a different story. And with the lack of sufficient housing even today in Gurgaon, its only going to get worst going ahead. Its not like Noida/GrNoida where nearly 1.8L houses remain unsold even today. Gurgaon has only a fraction of that which remain unsold. Even today, people first want to stay in the nicer places in Delhi, and if they can't afford it, then they come to Gurgaon, and if they can't afford in Gurgaon either, then they look at the lesser appealing places in Delhi or Noida. So no matter what anyone wants to say, excuses will be found to justify not being able to buy in this hierarchy. [/QUOTE] Sir,I want to get your facts corrected a bit , i don't have any zeal to move in Gurgaon , its interesting how you concluded that i want to move in ggn ?? Regarding Affordability Question - Not Living in Ggn, doesn't mean that you cant afford a house in GGn, i have a 3bhk flat in Noida, 1bhk flat in mayur vihar 2bhk flat in ghaziabad & 3bhk in Faridabad and 1 plot in fbd bptp for which i am planning to construct ,all these properties yields that much rent that i am able to invest 35k in SIP also , so your comparison of class and affordability , Audi & Maruti whatsoever it is .. sounds Ridiculous and baseless to me, believe me or not i can easily afford a decent house in your GURUJAAM but i wont , reason i have told you, now to brief you lil bit more ..in NCR cities which city i like the most is Faridabad , many reason behind it .... I have completed my bca and started saving from my first job itself, now i am 31,i can easily buy a normal house(if not very expensive in your GURUJAAM Today) not a big deal for me,i however dont want to disturb my investments just because anyone is saying that you cant afford it, so think twice before saying anything to anyone. I have Noo desire to move in a city with zero infra, with inadequate water supply, i want to live in a good city with all basic needs , and that is what my city is, so i am proud of it , me & my parents earned money not to waste it, i agree its an affordable city with cheap houses and that is what i like the most, it helped me in continuously growing my investments, i have spent less on Education (as compared to the very costly schools and colleges in other parts of ncr) ,affordable schools, colleges, shops,houses everything helped me and i am thankful to that,i know many of my friends who have completed their education from Top notch colleges but are still not doing anything ..because they have earned certificates and not knowledge,doesn't matter where you live, it matters who you are among your locality your society .. Huh,GGN is not the end of world dude, go get some life.. i have 5 properties all in Good Localities of NCR, and so i cant afford a 2/3/4 bhk flat in Ggn by your logic, if that makes you happy than i m happy .. Hahaha

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Posted by: southsea

On: July 10 2017 09:58 PM

>[FONT=trebuchet ms]Yes, South sea. You have to be wealthy and prosperous to be negative about population. Note, only the rates have slowed down and that too among upper middle class people. The population numbers itself aren't reversing. Replacement rate mean that the population will stabilize. The data from census clearly shows that rates are below replacement in a large number of states. Even in the poorest ones like UP (rate is down from 4.4 to 2.7 in just the last ten years). The link once again - [/FONT]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate [FONT=trebuchet ms]Of course we can ignore all this and rely on your 'survey' of the people you know to figure out population trends for the entire country. [/FONT]

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Posted by: ggnhomeowner

On: July 10 2017 11:36 PM

[QUOTE=futuristic 7;n2532376] Sir,I want to get your facts corrected a bit , i don't have any zeal to move in Gurgaon , its interesting how you concluded that i want to move in ggn ?? Regarding Affordability Question - Not Living in Ggn, doesn't mean that you cant afford a house in GGn, i have a 3bhk flat in Noida, 1bhk flat in mayur vihar 2bhk flat in ghaziabad & 3bhk in Faridabad and 1 plot in fbd bptp for which i am planning to construct ,all these properties yields that much rent that i am able to invest 35k in SIP also , so your comparison of class and affordability , Audi & Maruti whatsoever it is .. sounds Ridiculous and baseless to me, believe me or not i can easily afford a decent house in your GURUJAAM but i wont , reason i have told you, now to brief you lil bit more ..in NCR cities which city i like the most is Faridabad , many reason behind it .... I have completed my bca and started saving from my first job itself, now i am 31,i can easily buy a normal house(if not very expensive in your GURUJAAM Today) not a big deal for me,i however dont want to disturb my investments just because anyone is saying that you cant afford it, so think twice before saying anything to anyone. I have Noo desire to move in a city with zero infra, with inadequate water supply, i want to live in a good city with all basic needs , and that is what my city is, so i am proud of it , me & my parents earned money not to waste it, i agree its an affordable city with cheap houses and that is what i like the most, it helped me in continuously growing my investments, i have spent less on Education (as compared to the very costly schools and colleges in other parts of ncr) ,affordable schools, colleges, shops,houses everything helped me and i am thankful to that,i know many of my friends who have completed their education from Top notch colleges but are still not doing anything ..because they have earned certificates and not knowledge,doesn't matter where you live, it matters who you are among your locality your society .. Huh,GGN is not the end of world dude, go get some life.. i have 5 properties all in Good Localities of NCR, and so i cant afford a 2/3/4 bhk flat in Ggn by your logic, if that makes you happy than i m happy .. Hahaha[/QUOTE] Looks like you suffer from a major inferiority complex. Please read again, the remarks were in context to what was written by yourself, that it was a compulsion of some sort for companies to set up shop in Gurgaon. You should also read again, especially the part where I said that the first choice is the posher localities in Delhi, and then Gurgaon. Fyi I used to stay in Noida many years ago, used to go regularly to Mayur vihar too. However I am glad that I sold my property there and shifted to Gurgaon, much more "vibrant" here. I am not even sure how you claim that there is zero infra here, haven't faced any issue as such here in more than 2 decades. Agreed that there are certain shortcomings here due to the rapid expansion which weren't foreseen, but these are being addressed rapidly. You forget, major parts of Gurgaon are relatively new as compared to the other cities in NCR. Its grown leaps and bounds at a breakneck speed. Took time, but thankfully some people in the government woke up, and are now remedying the issues. Even if you sell all the investments you have listed above, you won't be able to buy into one of the expensive apartment complexes in Gurgaon. I openly admit that if I had the money I would prefer to stay in some of the nicer parts of Delhi, but since I don't, then had to compromise. And from what I am seeing the way the city has evolved over the years as compared to the other cities in NCR, its been fantastic. And judging by what is being undertaken by the government to ease the infrastructure issues that had cropped up, its going to get even better.

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Posted by: ggnhomeowner

On: July 10 2017 11:41 PM

[QUOTE=humblefool;n2532215] [FONT=trebuchet ms]If you stay at a place for more than 10 years. The place becomes your new hometown. All this 'I will go back' argument is waste. Given the economic opportunity, education ecosystem and other myriad benefits of staying in a city. Nobody in any real sense is going back. [/FONT][/QUOTE] This is very correct and major factor in the expansion of some of the cities. Even if the population overall is declining, the migration to some of the cities is continuing unabated. There is a reason why there is so much of planning being done to cope up with the expected increase in population in the cities.

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Posted by: suwonguy

On: July 10 2017 11:44 PM

[QUOTE=rookieman;n2531987]Actually I worked in GGN for eight years before relocating to Bangalore. Pay package in Gurgaon IT companies(not sure of other sectors) was not sufficient enough to settle in Gurgaon unless you have other sources of income. Practically I didn't have a choice but to relocate to Bangalore 3 years back. The Faridabad option was not available then. Now with improved connectivity one can stay in Faridabad and work in Gurgaon. For higher education kids will soon be able to go to Delhi on a daily basis using Metro/other options.[/QUOTE] Salaries of NCR IT companies were always poor as compared to Bangalore... Gurgaon started as a call centre hub, back office hub...There were no good jobs paying high salaries...Then came few IT companies (really few in number if you compare with Bangalore) paying slightly more than call centre/back office jobs.... Gurgaon RE has been a black money parking place for Delhi bureaucrats, Babus, Netas and damadjis...Salaried class (exceptions apart-CEO, VP, CXO, CFO, COO, Sr. VP etc) of Gurgaon cant afford crore plus priced RE (specially with low salaries of Gurgaon, volatile job market where Layoffs can happen anytime)...If someone dares to buy on Loan, they will keep paying to bank for 20 years(in case they are lucky to be not laid off from job in 20 years) and they can not fulfill other obligations of life (Child education, retirement corpus, old age medical needs etc.)...Anyway, since showoff (Dikhawa) is a common mental disease in NCR, so many get trapped in Loan for life and they ruin their financial health...It makes no sense to buy a house with price tag of Rs. 1- 1.5 crore which can be easily rented for Rs. 20,000...For black money hoarders or with cash bribe money, they can not keep this money in bank as Income Tax can ask for source of money and they have to park their ill gotte n money or black money into Gurgaon RE or Gold or some Land somewhere to hide it from IT folks...

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Posted by: ggnhomeowner

On: July 10 2017 11:57 PM

[QUOTE=suwonguy;n2532416] Salaries of NCR IT companies were always poor as compared to Bangalore... Gurgaon started as a call centre hub, back office hub...There were no good jobs paying high salaries...Then came few IT companies (really few in number if you compare with Bangalore) paying slightly more than call centre/back office jobs.... Gurgaon RE has been a black money parking place for Delhi bureaucrats, Babus, Netas and damadjis...Salaried class (exceptions apart-CEO, VP, CXO, CFO, COO, Sr. VP etc) of Gurgaon cant afford crore plus priced RE (specially with low salaries of Gurgaon, volatile job market where Layoffs can happen anytime)...If someone dares to buy on Loan, they will keep paying to bank for 20 years(in case they are lucky to be not laid off from job in 20 years) and they can not fulfill other obligations of life (Child education, retirement corpus, old age medical needs etc.)...Anyway, since showoff (Dikhawa) is a common mental disease in NCR, so many get trapped in Loan for life and they ruin their financial health...It makes no sense to buy a house with price tag of Rs. 1- 1.5 crore which can be easily rented for Rs. 20,000...For black money hoarders or with cash bribe money, they can not keep this money in bank as Income Tax can ask for source of money and they have to park their ill gotten money or black money into Gurgaon RE or Gold or some Land somewhere to hide it from IT folks...[/QUOTE] You are way off on this. IT company salaries are higher in Gurgaon. Most people miss the point that Gurgaon is not IT dependant as such. There's a lot of manufacturing too, plus it is a major corporate hub. For black money, Delhi & UP were the preferred options, that's why there was a substantial cash component there. In Gurgaon the percentage of cash in RE was always less. As it is there aren't enough apartments in Gurgaon for the working population here, with more and more jobs coming to Gurgaon, there is just not enough housing. Will take a very substantial amount of new projects to cater to this demand. And with the way this government has made it easier and faster to convert cash in RE, I only see it growing more.

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Posted by: futuristic 7

On: July 11 2017 12:15 AM

[QUOTE=ggnhomeowner;n2532410] Looks like you suffer from a major inferiority complex. Please read again, the remarks were in context to what was written by yourself, that it was a compulsion of some sort for companies to set up shop in Gurgaon. You should also read again, especially the part where I said that the first choice is the posher localities in Delhi, and then Gurgaon. Fyi I used to stay in Noida many years ago, used to go regularly to Mayur vihar too. However I am glad that I sold my property there and shifted to Gurgaon, much more "vibrant" here. I am not even sure how you claim that there is zero infra here, haven't faced any issue as such here in more than 2 decades. Agreed that there are certain shortcomings here due to the rapid expansion which weren't foreseen, but these are being addressed rapidly. You forget, major parts of Gurgaon are relatively new as compared to the other cities in NCR. Its grown leaps and bounds at a breakneck speed. Took time, but thankfully some people in the government woke up, and are now remedying the issues. Even if you sell all the investments you have listed above, you won't be able to buy into one of the expensive apartment complexes in Gurgaon. I openly admit that if I had the money I would prefer to stay in some of the nicer parts of Delhi, but since I don't, then had to compromise. And from what I am seeing the way the city has evolved over the years as compared to the other cities in NCR, its been fantastic. And judging by what is being undertaken by the government to ease the infrastructure issues that had cropped up, its going to get even better. [/QUOTE] Hahaha...Dude i think i have already explained thousands of time that i am not in love with GGn like you do...and thats good i mean if you love your city thats perfectly okay , i have no inferiority complex even if i will shift to Palwal or Dharuhera( though i wont do so ) . By the way there is nothing Vibrant these days in Both real estate sector and Gurgaon, both are ready to face some real challenges in near future.. Both will survive, but have to correct the way they work , the way price was rising was insane so both of themselves will gradually have to correct themselves. Vibrant is - Gujrat( Dholera Smart City) Bangalore( Steeling away IT Sector From NCR,Big Companies like Google and Apple are ready to invest there ) Faridabad( With Proposed Massive connectivity in Near future via Metro, Rail Road and now Airways , thats why government has chosen Faridabad as smart city in Haryana, and ignored the Artificial GAON of NCR .) GURUJAAM is Not at all Vibrant ...

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Posted by: suwonguy

On: July 11 2017 12:26 AM

[QUOTE=ggnhomeowner;n2532423] You are way off on this. IT company salaries are higher in Gurgaon. Most people miss the point that Gurgaon is not IT dependant as such. There's a lot of manufacturing too, plus it is a major corporate hub. For black money, Delhi & UP were the preferred options, that's why there was a substantial cash component there. In Gurgaon the percentage of cash in RE was always less. As it is there aren't enough apartments in Gurgaon for the working population here, with more and more jobs coming to Gurgaon, there is just not enough housing. Will take a very substantial amount of new projects to cater to this demand. And with the way this government has made it easier and faster to convert cash in RE, I only see it growing more.[/QUOTE] [B] Salaries in Gurgaon is way below Bangalore plus the number of job opportunities, number of jobs with higher positions, higher salaries are no where comparable to Bangalore.... I have worked in both Gurgaon and Bangalore as well as abroad...Of course it depends on person to person, For someone in Gurgaon 15-25Lakh CTC per annum might be higher but I consider it as too less...Bangalore can easily offer upwards of 50 Lakh+... About other types of jobs in Gurgaon, manufacturing had always less salaries(except very handful of people at very high position)... For black money parking, Gurgaon received substantial amount of black money...I have seen first hand that in sector 56, so many of apartments were purchased by clerks, babus, bureaucrats of delhi govt. department with their black money...They were not ready to make any rental agreement and were taking rentals in cash... Ask anybody who has lived in Gurgaon in last 10-15-20 years back, Gurgaon was always a hub of low paying jobs of call centre, back office jobs, support jobs...Even till today, it is no where nearer to Bangalore...[/B] Only recently few ecommerce companies flushed with investors money have thrown some money to employees but those companies are still not profitable and can close shop anytime... About number of houses in Gurgaon, I think there is surplus in Gurgaon and lots of stock is unsold and it will take many years to clear those unsold inventories...

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Posted by: flatowner2

On: July 11 2017 12:29 AM

[QUOTE=sapvin82;n2532221][h=1][SIZE=14px]more hiring in IT. Capgemini to hire over 20k people in India, reskilled 45k . Where is Bubble and where is Crash????[/SIZE][/h] [url]http://tech.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/corporate/capgemini-to-hire-over-20k-people-in-india-reskilled-45k/59451295[/url][/QUOTE] don't trust these desi chop shops, now a days I have seen in linkedin many employees of crapgemini r asking for job from consultants and ready to join immediately and ready to relocate to any city.

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Posted by: sapvin82

On: July 11 2017 12:35 AM

[QUOTE=flatowner2;n2532428] don't trust these desi chop shops, now a days I have seen in linkedin many employees of crapgemini r asking for job from consultants and ready to join immediately and ready to relocate to any city.[/QUOTE] Lol i better trust MNCs. You have seen..you have heard..this is the thing we get in this forum. Now give proof..where is RE crash ..where is bubble ??? ​​​

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Posted by: suwonguy

On: July 11 2017 12:44 AM

[QUOTE=sapvin82;n2532431] Lol i better trust MNCs. You have seen..you have heard..this is the thing we get in this forum. Now give proof..where is RE crash ..where is bubble ??? ​​​[/QUOTE] Last one year has been really tough in Indian IT job market, as well as Telecom sector, plus because of demonetisation in Informal sector...Lakhs of job cuts have happened combined in these sectors...In IT sector, it will continue to be tough...

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Posted by: rookieman

On: July 11 2017 12:59 AM

[QUOTE=suwonguy;n2532416] Salaries of NCR IT companies were always poor as compared to Bangalore... Gurgaon started as a call centre hub, back office hub...There were no good jobs paying high salaries...Then came few IT companies (really few in number if you compare with Bangalore) paying slightly more than call centre/back office jobs.... Gurgaon RE has been a black money parking place for Delhi bureaucrats, Babus, Netas and damadjis...Salaried class (exceptions apart-CEO, VP, CXO, CFO, COO, Sr. VP etc) of Gurgaon cant afford crore plus priced RE (specially with low salaries of Gurgaon, volatile job market where Layoffs can happen anytime)...If someone dares to buy on Loan, they will keep paying to bank for 20 years(in case they are lucky to be not laid off from job in 20 years) and they can not fulfill other obligations of life (Child education, retirement corpus, old age medical needs etc.)...Anyway, since showoff (Dikhawa) is a common mental disease in NCR, so many get trapped in Loan for life and they ruin their financial health...It makes no sense to buy a house with price tag of Rs. 1- 1.5 crore which can be easily rented for Rs. 20,000...For black money hoarders or with cash bribe money, they can not keep this money in bank as Income Tax can ask for source of money and they have to park their ill gotten money or black money into Gurgaon RE or Gold or some Land somewhere to hide it from IT folks...[/QUOTE] Apart from low cost of housing, the cost of living in Faridabad is also cheaper which my friend who stayed at both places informed me. The way I see it - In the coming years as jobs get created in Gurgaon, Faridabad and not Gurgaon will turn out to residential hub for people. In this way the sustainablity will be maintained and NCR part of Haryana won't turn out to be Mumbai Metropolitan region where 1 BHK costs 70-80 lakhs.

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Posted by: sapvin82

On: July 11 2017 01:03 AM

[QUOTE=suwonguy;n2532435] Last one year has been really tough in Indian IT job market, as well as Telecom sector, plus because of demonetisation in Informal sector...Lakhs of job cuts have happened combined in these sectors...In IT sector, it will continue to be tough...[/QUOTE] You are not correct. There is no proof.anybody with a degree can land a job in cities like bangalore n hyderabad

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Posted by: PappuPilot

On: July 11 2017 01:08 AM

Once a long time resident and my acquaintance from Noida said to me - apartment units in Noida is what you have in Gurgaon classified as affordable housing! :) Of course he must be exaggerating! Btw, Gurgaon does have many big corporate offices and not just call centres. Smaller software product or consulting companies find Noida attractive though.

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Posted by: suwonguy

On: July 11 2017 01:14 AM

[QUOTE=rookieman;n2532436] Apart from low cost of housing, the cost of living in Faridabad is also cheaper which my friend who stayed at both places informed me. The way I see it - In the coming years as jobs get created in Gurgaon, Faridabad and not Gurgaon will turn out to residential hub for people. In this way the sustainablity will be maintained and NCR part of Haryana won't turn out to be Mumbai Metropolitan region where 1 BHK costs 70-80 lakhs. [/QUOTE] People from Noida, Ghaziabad, Delhi also travel to Gurgaon for job as they are settled in those locations for generations/decades and they dont want to move out from those places as they have social circle, family, relations, friends, school going children and so on...For outsiders who do not have any attachment to any place, they are highly mobile and can move easily from one place to another...Those who are boasting of Gurgaon Infra, are forgetting that even a slight rain leads to huge traffic jam, roads fully submerged under several feet of water levels with crawling traffic, power cuts etc...Gurgaon as I know does not have any proper public transport till date (except for Metro in 2-3 places)...Faridabad, I have no idea as I never lived there or visited there...

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Posted by: suwonguy

On: July 11 2017 01:18 AM

[QUOTE=sapvin82;n2532438] You are not correct. There is no proof.anybody with a degree can land a job in cities like bangalore n hyderabad[/QUOTE] I am not here to give any proof...You can google search yourself as to what is happening in Telecom sector after Reliance Jio arrival or in IT sector....

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