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Dear ck.kislay,
You are subscribed to the thread "Indian Stock Advice Trading Strategies Trends Market Predictions & Regulations" by pcpune, there have been 5 post(s) to this thread, the last poster was ukdoctor.
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/9993-indian-stock-advice-trading-strategies-trends-market-predictions-regulations
These following posts were made to the thread:
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/9993-indian-stock-advice-trading-strategies-trends-market-predictions-regulations
Posted by: humblefool
On: November 6 2017 09:30 AM
[QUOTE=ukdoctor;n2563662]Regarding the concern that its a ponzi scheme , the counter argument is that it has been in existence for nearly 9 years now . At want point will the non believers accept it ?? When it survives for 10 years ? 15 years 20 years ?? OR When the price crosses $10000 or $25000 or $100000. Interesting points for discussion.. PS: My personal opinion is that it has a long way to run (provided there is not much goverment interference ) However the targets seem extremely optimistic . Mainstream assets have run up several times in the past Gold for example ran up around 7or 8 times IN A YEAR in around 1980 or so from $100 something to $850 an ounce. [/QUOTE] That 9 years part isn't the problem. The problem we have been stating since the beginning and you aren't listening. The problem is: 1. Which government backs this currency? 2. Which central bank controls its supply? 3. What checks, balances and regulations are in place to do your myriad capital controls, or keep organized crime syndicates from using it? etc etc. Secondly it doesn't matter even if the speculative value of Bitcoin reaches millions or even billions. The value of currency depends on people using it, no people hoarding it. As of today. Nobody is spending bitcoins, everyone is hoarding because they estimate the value will go up indefinitely. Whereas for a currency to be successful people to spend and use it.
With warm regards,
Team IREF
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/9993-indian-stock-advice-trading-strategies-trends-market-predictions-regulations
Posted by: atwitsend
On: November 6 2017 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=humblefool;n2563802] That 9 years part isn't the problem. The problem we have been stating since the beginning and you aren't listening. The problem is: 1. Which government backs this currency? 2. Which central bank controls its supply? 3. What checks, balances and regulations are in place to do your myriad capital controls, or keep organized crime syndicates from using it? etc etc. Secondly it doesn't matter even if the speculative value of Bitcoin reaches millions or even billions. The value of currency depends on people using it, no people hoarding it. As of today. Nobody is spending bitcoins, everyone is hoarding because they estimate the value will go up indefinitely. Whereas for a currency to be successful people to spend and use it.[/QUOTE] The last line is important for bitcoin. No government in the world will allow a parallel unregulated currency - it will create chaos and destroy economies. Irony is, if its regulated then it will lose its speculatory value.
With warm regards,
Team IREF
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/9993-indian-stock-advice-trading-strategies-trends-market-predictions-regulations
Posted by: ukdoctor
On: November 6 2017 05:50 PM
[QUOTE=humblefool;n2563802][QUOTE=ukdoctor;n2563662]Regarding the concern that its a ponzi scheme , the counter argument is that it has been in existence for nearly 9 years now . At want point will the non believers accept it ?? When it survives for 10 years ? 15 years 20 years ?? OR When the price crosses $10000 or $25000 or $100000. Interesting points for discussion.. PS: My personal opinion is that it has a long way to run (provided there is not much goverment interference ) However the targets seem extremely optimistic . Mainstream assets have run up several times in the past Gold for example ran up around 7or 8 times IN A YEAR in around 1980 or so from $100 something to $850 an ounce. [/QUOTE] That 9 years part isn't the problem. The problem we have been stating since the beginning and you aren't listening. The problem is: 1. Which government backs this currency? 2. Which central bank controls its supply? 3. What checks, balances and regulations are in place to do your myriad capital controls, or keep organized crime syndicates from using it? etc etc. Secondly it doesn't matter even if the speculative value of Bitcoin reaches millions or even billions. The value of currency depends on people using it, no people hoarding it. As of today. Nobody is spending bitcoins, everyone is hoarding because they estimate the value will go up indefinitely. Whereas for a currency to be successful people to spend and use it.[/QUOTE]I am not arguing that bitcoin has run up too quickly but I dont think of it as a ponzi scheme . Same can be said about gold 1. No government is on the gold standard 2. No central bank controls its supply 3. The only thing a government can do is to restrict it's import . However nothing much can be done with the gold already present unless they decide to do forcible confiscation . I won't rule it out in a crisis situation even in India even where gold is ingrained in our culture. The government can always sell it as a anti - black money move and the masses will lap it up provided some limits are imposed on personal holding Anyone who has travelled into India in the last few years and questioned by customs about the gold jewellery on their person will understand this . A family member had her wedding chain weighed at customs and it was a nightmare as it was over the limit. Luckily her family managed to get the bill ( was bought in India ) and managed to sort out the issue. You can't say that gold is used as a currency and its dug up and hoarded. Industrial use accounts for only a few % of gold mined every year. The rest is held up in vaults /stored. Regarding use by organised crime , bitcoin can be tracked more easily than currency notes though I agree that there are other coins which have more anonymity. When I do any transaction the info is on the parent and where it has gone and where it has gone subsequently. law enforcement can track it if they want . https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608716/bitcoin-transactions-arent-as-anonymous-as-everyone-hoped/ You cannot compare bitcoin with the tulip mania of the 1600's . During the tulip mania the prices of tulip bulbs went up exponentially as people started bidding up. Another one is the monkey scam (probably a fable ) [quote]Once upon a time in a village a man appeared who announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10. The villagers knew that the jungle held countless monkeys, easily caught. The man bought 2 thousand.[/quote] [quote]As the supply diminished, they become difficult to catch, and villagers returned to their farms. The man announced that he would pay $20. The villagers renewed their efforts and caught 1,000 more monkeys. The supply quickly diminished, but before they returned to their farms the man increased his offer to $40 each. Monkeys became so rare that it was difficult to even see a monkey let alone catch it. But they caught 500. The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $100! However, since he had to go to the city on some business his assistant would now buy for the man. The man departed. Then the assistant told the villagers, "Look at all these monkeys the man has in that big cage. I will sell them to you at $50 each. When the man comes back you can sell the monkey's back to him for $100." The villagers queued up with all their saving to buy the monkeys. The assistant took their money. They never saw either the man or his assistant again. They now owned 3,500 monkeys. They were paid $60,000 to catch them, and bought them back for $175,000.[/quote] The difference in the case of bitcoin is that there is a defined number of bitcoins in existence . No one can fake a bitcoin or exaggerate its value . Price controls don't work in such cases as the deals will go underground. As I mentioned in an earlier post , anything is worth only what a second person would pay for it whether it be gold, property etc etc .. I spend bitcoin for transactions on a regular basis as as I said in an earlier post, there are bitcoin cards available which work with regular shops. PS: I agree that bitcoin has run up too quickly and will probably deflate down. However I intend to hold my bitcoin as part of my portfolio along with gold . (15% gold and 5% bitcoin )
With warm regards,
Team IREF
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/9993-indian-stock-advice-trading-strategies-trends-market-predictions-regulations
Posted by: humblefool
On: November 6 2017 08:17 PM
[QUOTE=ukdoctor;n2563919]I am not arguing that bitcoin has run up too quickly but I dont think of it as a ponzi scheme . Same can be said about gold 1. No government is on the gold standard 2. No central bank controls its supply 3. The only thing a government can do is to restrict it's import . However nothing much can be done with the gold already present unless they decide to do forcible confiscation . [/QUOTE] a. GOLD IS NOT A CURRENCY. b. The implication of a. have to be obvious. Its a metal(of utility), or at best a commodity. Different dynamics at play here. And unless we get into asteroid mining or something its supply is automatically controlled. c. BITCOIN IS A CURRENCY. d. Currency is a medium to trade thing. But here its being treated as totally different beast in all together.
With warm regards,
Team IREF
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/9993-indian-stock-advice-trading-strategies-trends-market-predictions-regulations
Posted by: ukdoctor
On: November 6 2017 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=humblefool;n2563948][QUOTE=ukdoctor;n2563919]I am not arguing that bitcoin has run up too quickly but I dont think of it as a ponzi scheme . Same can be said about gold 1. No government is on the gold standard 2. No central bank controls its supply 3. The only thing a government can do is to restrict it's import . However nothing much can be done with the gold already present unless they decide to do forcible confiscation . [/QUOTE] a. GOLD IS NOT A CURRENCY. b. The implication of a. have to be obvious. Its a metal(of utility), or at best a commodity. Different dynamics at play here. And unless we get into asteroid mining or something its supply is automatically controlled. c. BITCOIN IS A CURRENCY. d. Currency is a medium to trade thing. But here its being treated as totally different beast in all together.[/QUOTE]I have to disagree with you there. Gold [b]was historically a high value currency[/b] before all nations came off the gold standard and was even used for international trade ( bars/ingots). In fact almost all the nations had gold as part of their currency system [url="https://taxfreegold.co.uk/goldcoinsbriefhistory.html"]https://taxfreegold.co.uk/goldcoinsbriefhistory.html[/url] The UK had its gold sovereign for example and the rulers /kings in ancient india used to issue them as well [url="https://wealthymatters.com/2011/03/13/indian-gold-coins/"]https://wealthymatters.com/2011/03/13/indian-gold-coins/[/url] Also have a read through this article [url="http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/10/gold-the-other-currency.asp"]http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/10/gold-the-other-currency.asp[/url] again the issue with any asset or currency is how much value people place on it .
With warm regards,
Team IREF
With warm regards,
Team IREF
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